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Thomas de Saint Omer, does Will JOhnson have proof?
The point is that Thomas "de St Omer" or whatever is not a son of any
Hungarian princess who used to be Empress.
Move on now girls.
---------------You said it, prove it.
Grandstanding without sources is useless, have you tried Google Books? Who is the mother of Thomas, you are so definite that it is not the Hungarian princess----based on what?

Wills dishonest rant re Thomas de Saint Omer
Will,
I ignore but do not appreciate your nasty language. I gloss over that, but you cannot expect us to gloss over your blatant dishonesty. Is it 24 hours ago that you said :
Lunatic nutty nuttings.
Sure the King of Hungary often goes around marrying his daughters to
obscure nobodies with small land holdings a thousand miles away.

Re: DNA Neanderthal
predates the oldest known Neanderthal. A little care is needed,
however, because I don't think appropriate sites have been identified
from earlier times. That could all change with a single discovery. If
Neanderthal didn't pass through the area, then we have to come up with
an alternative route, Iberia being a possibility, but there is no

Maroth's idiocy according to Will Johnson
Granted that there is a *supposed* source ( and let us realize it was
written over two HUNDRED years after the events it's claiming to
represent) which states that it knows who the father-in-law of Zoltan
was, we have to realize that names are important. When you run Maroth
and Khazar against Google Books you get idiocy, plain and simple.

Thomas de Saint Omer
In digging about through the descent of Thomas de Saint Omer
(grandfather of Sir Thomas Hoo of Lutton Hoo via Alice de St Omer),
and noticed that our canonical resource (Leo) might have a duplicate
for Thomas (he appears to be listed as Sir Thomas and Thomas). This is
a very trivial point of course, and I mention it here because I cannot

Maroth and the Khazars
Thanks to Todd Farmerie and others.
What is apparent, is that people can be Jewish by blood or by religion.
I may have muddled up Michael O'hearn's story about the possibility of Khazar Ashkenazi Jews being of Neanderthal descent, with the Khazars who became Jewish by changing their religion.
To have the DNA from three Neanthal women extended to the present, surely, they have to track via total female lines.

Sephardic Jews
I have a question regarding the surname "Guzman". Among modern Jews in
Spanish-speaking areas, this is a common surname. I have also
encountered the surname while researching medieval Spain. Were the
medieval Guzmans Jewish? Anyone know? Bronwen

Jewish ancestors for Americans was Re: DNA-Neanderthal
----- Original Message -----
To: <GEN-MEDIE...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:13 AM
Dear Michael,
This is fascinating. I found mention of Maroth, Prince of Bihar Khazars, who
was born about 880. He was a Jewish Khazar and lived between the rivers
Theiss and Szamos, the latter is in Hungary. If he is a Ashkenazi Jew, then

Re: DNA-Neanderthal
Several years ago an American Jew came up with the idea that the aggressiveness
of Ashkenazi Jews, both in America and in Israel, could be explained
by Neanderthal genes inherited from the Khazars, following Arthur Koestler's
basic idea. His theory was discredited by the fact that most of the Ashkenazi

DNA - Neanderthal
In a Dutch genealogical magazine was a short entry by Peter Miebies. He ponders about reasons why people are interested in genealogy, which was his introduction to discussing an article in the "Science" magazine. According to Pieter Miebes it was quoted that between 1 and 4 percent of European DNA originates by Neanderthals.

oldest surviving agnatic lineages in Finland
Generally, commoner families of Finland are not traceable before c1500.
Mostly, families traceable earlier than that, were nobles and with prominent
landholdings.
Before c1350, practically no families in Finland can ce traced. So, even the
nobility do possess more traceability potential only perhaps a century

C.P. Correction: Death date of Isabel de Mortimer, wife of John Fitz Alan, Ralph d'Arderne, and Robert Hastang
Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage, 1 (1910): 240 (sub Arundel) has an account of John
Fitz Alan (died 1272), lord of Clun and Oswestry, which individual is
ancestor of the later Earls of Arundel. Regarding his wife, Isabel de
Mortimer, the following information is provided:
"He married Isabel, daughter of Roger de Mortimer, of Wigmore, by

Re: Dorothy Stapleton from King Edward III
The Descent of the two eldest sons (Captain Philip and Thomas (jr , or
perhaps III) of Thomas Nelson( jr ) by his 1st wife Dorothy Stapleton and
subsequently from the whole Stapleton- Constable ancestry is quite
interesting and yes the eight or nine descents from King Edward III are unusual for

"Joseph de Clonard-Borbon"
it looks like there is again somebody mentally unstable, among impostors
around the internet, claiming a non-existent name, "de Clonard-Borbon"
[link]

Elizabeth le Latimer, wife of John de Camoys and Ralph de Ufford
Dear Newsgroup ~
Back in July 2010, I posted evidence relating to the existence of a
hitherto unknown daughter of William le Latimer, Knt., 3rd Lord
Latimer, and his wife, Elizabeth Botetourt. This daughter was
Elizabeth le Latimer, who was living in 1365-6, as the wife of Ralph
de Ufford. See a copy of my earlier post below.

Dorothy Stapleton Nelson from Edward III
I thought it would be interesting to draw a chart showing all of the
descents Dorothy Stapleton (wife of Thomas Nelson, Rowley MA.) has
from Edward III of England, including all the intermarriages. It was a
lot of fun actually, although my artistic skills are severely
deficient. I put the image up on my Nelson Royal Ancestry blog here...

Richard de Rivers 1160-1222
Dear John Watson:
Thank you very much for your C.P. information. My suspicions for a change were
correct.
It would appear that this Richard de Redvers descended from William Vernon.
William Vernon was a son of Richard de Redvers and Adeliza (born about 1100).
Regarding Richard Redvers (inner circle Henry 1st) who died 1107 and wife

Richard de Rivers (Redvers, Ripariis) 1260-1322
1194: Richard de Rivers married Joan de Port. Her first husband was John Fitz
Gilbert Marshall of England.
                                                                              
    (C.P.11.12 and Boyd 148)
1214 Richard de Rivers married Matilda de Luci (grand daughter of Sir Richard

Re: Roger de Montbegon
Complete Peerage, Vol. 11, p. 345, Saint John has this:
"Robert de St. John...m. Olive, elder da. and coh. of Alan
FitzJordan...Robert d. after 8 Jul 1199 and before 27 Feb 1199/1200. His
widow m. between 14 May and the end of Jun 1200, Roger de Montbegon of
Hornby Castle, Lancs, who d.s.p. before 15 Apr 1226 (d)..."

The shared descent of New England immigrants Thomas1 Broughton and Mary1 (Gye) Maverick of Massachusetts
Mrs. Mary Maverick's descent from Charles Farrington of Devonshire is
fairly well-known.
Charles Farrington + Margery Stukeley
Anne Farrington + Thomas Dowrish
Grace Dowrish + Robert Gye
Mary Gye + Rev. John Maverick who went to Massachusetts about 1630
What has not been realized is that Mr. Thomas1 Broughton of

Fwd: Roger de Montebegon
In a message dated 8/31/2010 7:35:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Order of markers in Y-DNA test results
When the results of markers are reported on websites like
[link]
is it typical that the markers are reported in the same order as
results reported on other websites like
[link]
Or does each laboratory report their results in any order they wish?

C.P. Correction: Muriel Grey, alleged 1st wife of Henry Stafford, K.G., Earl of Wiltshire
Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage, 8 (1932): 62-63 (sub Lisle) has a good account of
Elizabeth Grey, Lady Lisle (died 1519), wife of Henry Courtenay, Earl
of Devon. Regarding her heirs, the following information is supplied
on pages 62 and 63:
"Her heirs were her two surviving aunts, daughters of Edward Grey, 1st

Middleton-Veteripont
All,
In researching the Viponts, I came across a history of Ilkley,
Yorkshire which stated that Sir Nicholas Middleton married three
times. 1) Matilda, daughter of Robert Vipont, 2) Avice Stapilton and
3) Isabel Scrope.
This Robert Vipont could possibly have been the one who married
Margaret Penreth and was dead by 1370 or another descendant of Ivo de

[OT] Ancestry of Farrah Fawcett
My preliminary work here
[link]
In case anyone wants to chime in to add details.
You can email me privately as well if you wish.
I've only done the first few generations but perhaps a collaborative
effort can succeed to connecting her back to our target time period.

Sorbs blacklist used by Rootsweb
I just learned today that Rootsweb uses the Sorbs blacklist to filter
email.
Sorbs has been written up here
[link]
See for yourself.
Just another thing to make me spitting mad, that Rootsweb thinks this is
appropriate.

Fwd: Returned mail: see transcript for details


test
test

Walter Kelly, Mayor (1529) and Alderman of Dublin
Arre there any clues to the ancestry of Walter KELLY, Alderman of
Dublin and Mayor (in
1529)? He was the father of Maude KELLY, wife of Christopher CHEVERS
(born 1520 in
Ballyhally (?), Co. Wexford.

Richard Harvie & Ellen Elliott
Is anyone familiar with the following: Richard Harvie and Ellen Elliott. Their son Richard Harvey emigrated to America aboard the Planter in 1635. Richard Harvey's daughter, Elizabeth was born July 24, 1644 in Stratford, CT per the Barbour Collection. I am trying to locate ancestry information for Richard Harvie and Ellen Eliott. I have seen pedigrees which list his father as Vincent Harvie taking him back to Sir Nicholas Harvey and Bridget Wiltshire-but I have seen no firm documentation. Has anyone in the newsgroup come across this couple? Any info will be appreciated.